Kitty Ziegler Berry Love your patience and enthusiasm with her. What was the low scent that was used?
Rachel Thornton It was a sample that Amber sent with Kiva when I picked her up to come visit. BG 55
Amber Green I like seeing that you waited for her to sniff the sample, then paw. She gets ahead of herself when she realizes that it is the scent game. Then when you held out both hands were you waiting for her to choose the correct hand holding sample? She loves the hide low and seek game!- Rachel Thornton Yes! It is important that the dog understand that the reward is for the SNIFFING. . .
Or, in kiva's case, since she already knows to paw, it is important that she understand that the cue to paw is the odor.
So: I present odor, Kiva sniffs odor, Kiva paws, I mark and reinforce.
If Kiva gets ahead of herself and paws without sniffing, no reward. I remove the odor, pause, and present again.
Nice observation, Amber smile emoticon
Yes, I was letting her chose the right hand. Some residual scent was on Both hands, but she was driving to the stronger scent . . .
Yes! She really has fun! - Kitty Ziegler Berry I did notice you were very deliberate with rewarding only the exact behavior. Love these excited dogs giving both paws (keeper does that), but certainly appreciate the need for the controlled alert. Thanks for sharing!
- Rachel Thornton lets look at a few interesting take-aways:
Kiva is magnetized to the scent as soon as I take the top off. Her nose is glued on the test tube as I situate myself onto the stool.
smile emoticon
I describe 'training with scent sample" as having 3 stages:
- assigning value to the odor
- discriminating / showing priority choice
- adding a trained indicator
AND, IMO, the dog will tell you when the odor has value . . .via body language, via anticipatory responses (the dog smells the odor and immediately shows anticipation for reinforcement). . .
Kiva's attraction to the odor in the first nano-second of this clip shows me that she understands that the low BG odor has VALUE. 
- Rachel Thornton knowing the odor has value, i could now increase the difficulty by asking Kiva "is it the odor more meaningful to you than _____?"
or I could ask Kiva "Can you show me which of these is the odor that you find reinforcing"
(by placing this target odor next to another odor and having her make a selection) - Rachel Thornton ORR
I could tell change the picture for her slightly. IFFFFF she has a trained indication that is fluent in any place, at any time, then I can now put those 2 together: and that happens in this video - and Kiva made that leap for us. I marked the sniffing "yip" and was in the middle of reinforcing when she swiped me with her paw. . . .
WHY? previous sessions might have looked like this : (not shown here) :
i present odor > Kiva sniffs > i mark and reward
THEN
i present odor > Kiva sniffs > i cue the paw touch > kiva touches with paw > I mark and reward
EVENTUALLY, as shown here in the very first rep, Kiva begins to anticipate the paw touch and she connects ODOR > PAW TOUCH - Tasha Harris So Molly can work with Ez in this as long as she has a normal or low bg right? How long does the scent stay good for and must you put it back in the fridge?
- Rachel Thornton I think Lynn is nudging me to reiterate AGAIN, in this thread:
IF YOU WANT A DOG THAT ALERTS **ANYTIME** /** ANYWHERE**, THEN TRAIN **ALL THE TIME** AND **EVERYWHERE**
I always tell people that it reminds me of playing 'Clue" ( i think of keeping the log of information gathered and marking "mrs green" and "kitchen" and "knife") I stress that everyone needs to keep GOOD RECORDS of their scent training. I suggest a spreadsheet with a place to log AS MUCH INFO as possible:
~where did you train
~what was your body position
~what was the BG of the sample
~what time of day
~what was the dog doing
~how did you reward
and i stress reviewing that log to make sure that you train ANY PLACE YOU WANT THE DOG TO ALERT, in ANY BODY POSTING (siting, standing, moving, stationary) that you might be in when you want the dog to alert - Rachel Thornton IOW, since Kiva has told us that she understands that the odor has value in the kitchen with a BG of 55, while i am sitting on the stool, when i have her focused attention in front of me . . . I must now ask her "do you understand the value of this odor when I am standing? when we are in the den?, etc"
- Rachel Thornton IMO, via my experience : i know that the sample is good if preserved in freezer for 30 days.
when i take it out to work with it, i do not refreeze. I remove it from freezer, place it somewhere safe to reach room temp, i train, i put it in the refrigerator ( rather than re-freezing) I note the date that i first use that sample and I discard it after 3 days. During those 3 days, when using it, each time, I allow it to reach room temp, i train, i cap it, i put the sealed tube into a zip loc bag, i seal the ziplock bag and then i put that bag back into my refrigerator
I have a special spot in my freezer and refrigerator that is only used for scent samples (IOW, I don't keep it in the krisper with my bacon. ha ha) - Rachel Thornton Tasha, in an ideal situation, I would only want Molly to work with samples with Ezri when her BG matches the sample. In other words, Molly works with a LOW BG sample when Molly's BG is low. To me, that gives the dog the clearest picture possible. Ultimately, we don't want Ezri to alert when Molly is euglycemic . . .so, what message *could Ezri be learning, inadvertantly* if we put the sample on Molly when she is in range? would Ezri learn that she is responding to the odor on the sample? or could she possibly think that she is responding to the odor on molly??
in real life, that could get tricky, since it limits the interaction of Molly and Ezri when working with scent samples . . .and yet, we need for Ezri to make that powerful connection "oooooohhhhh, this smell is on Molly sometimes, too . . . ." - Rachel Thornton THIS IS AN UNREGULATED UNPROVEN ARENA : you can talk to other people / trainers who will give very different info. I'm sticking with what i have done, because of what I have observed. . . . and I love dialog and am happy to discuss other ideas, but: i also know that there are a LOT of hokey things being done in the arena of DAD training . . . .
. . .I'm just saying' . . . - Rachel Thornton soooo, toward the end of the video, I took kiva around the corner, i shoved the sample in my back pocket and then i busied myself at the kitchen counter as Kiva came back into the room. I was asking Kiva "HMMM. could you find this sample in my pocket, when I am standing? when i have told you that we have finished training?
Kiva said "easy peasy and I can paw you too" smile emoticon. . .but i realized that the camera was at a bad angle, so i re-angled the camera, moved the sample to my front pocket and just leaned against my counter. It was definitely sort of a 'set-up' position . . . but that was for the sake of the video . . . - Rachel Thornton at this point, FOR KIVA, she should be exposed to scent throughout the day in many places, in many positions. she clearly understands the value of the odor. she understands that the odor is a cue for a paw swipe. now she just needs to understand that i...See More
- Rachel Thornton I WOULD NOT jump to 'on the go' scent training until the dog had told me that she was ready for that.
SET THE DOG UP FOR SUCCESS by ONLY ASKING THE DOG TO DO WHAT YOU ALREADY KNOW THE DOG IS CAPABLE OF DOING - Rachel Thornton and, if - like Tasha or Amber- you are working with training with scent samples while you also live with a diabetic, then you will also have opportunities to reinforce a real-time low BG . . .AND, for a dog at Kiva's level of understanding, IF MY DAUGHTERS BG WAS A "SAFE" LOW, i would do a quick session with samples, then i would tuck the sample in my daughter's pocket and create a training scenario for the dog to find the sample on my daughter who matched the sample . . .
- Rachel Thornton and if the dog was a FUN dog like most of these, I would hide my daughter and create a very rewarding game of hide and seek whereby the dog is seeking the scent and the reward comes when the dog finds the scent ON 'her person".
- Tasha Harris So I should work the scent training with the test tube, not Molly unless she is low?
- Rachel Thornton (I don't think we abided by this guideline when Abi was training mr darcy, and he is amazing . . . but if i knew now what i didn't know then, i am certain I would apply this concept . . . he was amazing and abi did 100% of his training and he told us that he knew the value of the odor by the time he was 9 weeks old. TRUTH. so. . .it was a little different for him, because the vast majority of his training was via Abi during real time events. . .in fact, if you put a sample in front of him today, he would have zero interest in it - it would mean nothing to him. which is another very interesting dialog we could have someday . . .)
Abi, your thoughts? 
Laurie Schwartz My preference... I the parent would use the scent tube when Molly is away. Molly only uses the scent tube when she is confirmed low.- Laurie Schwartz Honestly, these dogs once on real time see the scent tube as just another game, so it doesn't destroy them to have conflicting experiences... They know the gig. I still try to keep it clean but ...
When Willow was a young adolescent and clearly alerting to real time I played lots of scent games. I pulled out a sample when she was sleeping and she woke, looked at me walked over to Adam and laid back down. That was the moment I knew she knew the difference and was problem solving. Also, I knew she was a diva and would make choices - Laurie Schwartz With Ez and Molly the scent tube is a great way to put deposits in the bank to build a rich history of reward for the scent... So keep the process clean and clear.
Rachel, how was that? Did I use your expressions in the right context? I love your expressions btw1 min · Like
Rachel Thornton similar story that is an all-time favorite of mine . . .abi and mr darcy and I were with a group of people, doing some training, when he was a puppy. someone had placed a row of scent containers in the front of the large room. Abi left for a moment and the person had various dogs working and then said something like "bring mr darcy up; he knows exactly how to do this".
Mr darcy sniffed each of the containers but then turned and walked away from them, walked directly to abi in the back of the room and alerted to her. she was low.
that is when I knew that he totally understood that the value of the scent ON ABI was the winning combination
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